tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post9222590838270483167..comments2024-01-25T14:28:19.368-05:00Comments on Smaller Manhattans: There Is No Substitutekkollwitzhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-75723734010160295072013-07-30T22:52:38.509-04:002013-07-30T22:52:38.509-04:00Baltimore, thanks for commenting. I happily suppor...Baltimore, thanks for commenting. I happily support Catholics memorizing the things you mention: Commandments, prayers, Holydays, Seven Sacraments, the Liturgical Year, etc. In my class we work on memorizing the Act of Contrition, which virtually none of the kids know. I suppose time spent on memorizing such things might comprise 15% of a child's catechetical education. For the rest of the time I would like to see Catechists using the Bible as directly, substantially and effectively as our Separated Brethren do. Given that it's a Catholic book, that should be a minimum standard which we are nowhere near. <br /><br />BTW re memorization, you might like this: http://platytera.blogspot.com/2009/06/repetition-repetition.html kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-44616888328572870862013-07-30T21:32:37.004-04:002013-07-30T21:32:37.004-04:00I do take issue with what seems to be a blanket re...I do take issue with what seems to be a blanket rejection of memorization, as if one had to choose between committing something to memory and understanding it. I'm pretty sure your doctor had to memorize the names of all those muscles and bones, and you should be glad he did, just as you should be glad Mrs. Kidswatter in grade three made you memorize the multiplication table.<br /><br />How can we understand whether we've broken the Commandments unless we can name them? <br /><br />Do we really want our kids to still be reading the Apostles' Creed off a card when they're in high school?Baltimore Catechisthttp://catecheticalsundae.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-33090160334356826522013-07-28T19:07:41.127-04:002013-07-28T19:07:41.127-04:00RAnn, if y'all get 32 classes, I am jealous. T...RAnn, if y'all get 32 classes, I am jealous. This year we have 29 meetings and I'm in ecstasy.kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-54082970925987403372013-07-28T19:03:53.661-04:002013-07-28T19:03:53.661-04:00RAnn, funny you mention the topical approach to fa...RAnn, funny you mention the topical approach to faith: it was by increasing use of the Bible to teach the required topics that the Bible became the main book in class, supported by the Catechism, as it should for any Catholic. <br /><br />I feel another post coming. kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-26249328170862271552013-07-28T18:50:58.049-04:002013-07-28T18:50:58.049-04:00Barb, this was me too: "I remember reading th...Barb, this was me too: "I remember reading the great Bible stories by age 6...I memorized the BC in religion class."<br /><br />I knew the stories too, but I learned them only in a generic Christian way; they were not presented with any intent to teach Catholicism. When it was time to learn about Catholicism, we got out our BCs. kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-73589772562396817962013-07-28T17:08:38.242-04:002013-07-28T17:08:38.242-04:00One problem is that our faith is so complex and th...One problem is that our faith is so complex and there is so much to know. Our catchetical programs operate on this 32 weeks a year for an hour a week for children only model. While Baptists can indoctrinate their children into their faith by starting with interesting simple Bible stories and moving to more complex ones, we have help kids understand liturgy, teach them about saints, teach them about traditions and teach them about the Bible. The result is a topic-based approach that uses scripture as a resource rather than a scripture study approach. In most parishes there is no general expectation that most adults (at least those who are at all serious about their faith) will attend religious ed programs. Kids in Catholic high schools may study the Bible at some point in more depth but the year my son did, what I saw could have been taught in a "Bible as Literature" class in a public high school. <br /><br />Based on my experience in adult ed classes and in talking to people, I'm more knowledgeable about Catholicism in general and the Bible than most Catholic adults, yet I often learn from your posts. I think we need to get away from a school model of catchesis and into the Protestant Sunday School model where both adults and children study their faith weekly throughout the year.RAnnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04102249990885174107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-78188561745775806192013-07-28T13:59:02.276-04:002013-07-28T13:59:02.276-04:00I agree with Jennifer Fitz's comments.
Raised...I agree with Jennifer Fitz's comments.<br /><br />Raised Catholic in a devout Catholic home, I remember reading the great Bible stories by age 6. At age 4, I was given a book of women saints that I loved to read. Growing up I often went to daily Mass where Scripture was implanted in my brain. I memorized the BC in religion class. My parents gave me a Bible for high school graduation and I loved reading it. Apparently, from what you say in your post, this was really unusual. I am thanking God for His blessings.<br /><br />As we grow in our spiritual life, we must realize that lifelong learning of the Bible and our Faith is essential. It would help if priests would preach more from the Bible like they are supposed to do during Sunday homilies.<br /><br />Your approach to catechesis is ideal. Maybe you are supposed to create materials and models for all catechists who should, themselves, be engaged in lifelong learning?<br />Barb Schoenebergerhttp://www.sufferingwithjoy.com/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-6877694124479253062013-07-22T15:09:57.512-04:002013-07-22T15:09:57.512-04:00"How much of this is so as not to intimidate ..."How much of this is so as not to intimidate volunteer catechists?"<br /><br />Dunno. That does beg the question: why should the Bible be intimidating? Millions of people over hundreds of years have not found it so. kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-36716346792609566402013-07-22T00:02:52.481-04:002013-07-22T00:02:52.481-04:00Before publishers of parish rel. ed. materials wer...Before publishers of parish rel. ed. materials were required to reference / cite / quote the latest Catechism (mid-1990's), students' workbooks cited / referenced / quoted <b><i>the Bible.</i></b> I swear to it.<br /><br />In those days, RCL Benziger sold a scripture workbook (for Catholics). For a number of years, I treated my students to a copy and we worked through it together in class. <br /><br />I've been out of the loop for more than a decade, no longer browsing publisher booths at rel. ed. conferences. But online searches don't turn up comparable, contemporary resources. If I'm drawn back into teaching this year, as I suspect I am, I might have to make up my own stuff.<br /><br />How much of this is so as not to intimidate volunteer catechists? Moonshadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11277057132720569896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-50267833828236702062013-07-16T17:29:42.515-04:002013-07-16T17:29:42.515-04:00Brian, that's not unusual at least in the Sout...Brian, that's not unusual at least in the South: nominal Catholic becomes Evangelical; gets all Bibled up; eventually the Bible starts looking awfully Catholic; former Catholic reverts to Catholicism. Do you know of Francis Beckwith?<br /><br />I'm consciously trying to make sure my Catechism class kids won't need to initiate that process.<br /><br /><br />kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-40105689321149826552013-07-16T16:33:19.206-04:002013-07-16T16:33:19.206-04:00I often wonder is need to learn Scripture is why G...I often wonder is need to learn Scripture is why God took me (and others) on a 25 year detour through evangelicalism--so we could learn Bible. The problem is that now I also have to learn the teaching of the Church (CCC, for example). Both/and would have been better.Brian Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13090250825241093641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-49976467788002724412013-07-15T20:58:13.228-04:002013-07-15T20:58:13.228-04:00"the earlier children begin to hear the great..."the earlier children begin to hear the great stories of the Bible, the better."<br /><br />Yes.kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-85473162532809362013-07-15T20:57:02.206-04:002013-07-15T20:57:02.206-04:00"Bible Alone doesn't work, and tools like..."Bible Alone doesn't work, and tools like the BC or F&L have their part in providing the Tradition leg of the stool."<br /><br />Indeed they do play a part.kkollwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17691145638703824456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-76821678653496947102013-07-15T19:40:26.066-04:002013-07-15T19:40:26.066-04:00Well, I'm a fan of the BC for two reasons: 1) ...Well, I'm a fan of the BC for two reasons: 1) My kids like it, and 2) It presents Christian doctrine clearly and succinctly. But it's only part of the picture. Bible Alone doesn't work, and tools like the BC or F&L (which I also like), have their part in providing the Tradition leg of the stool.<br /><br />I suspect, though, that people who are crying out for more __[insert retro method here]__ are really just floundering in the face of nothing-catechesis, and grasping at anything that might be more than zero.Jennifer Fitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03826217462263240563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8216919512961858215.post-58189017969386529672013-07-15T19:29:17.676-04:002013-07-15T19:29:17.676-04:00Well-said - and right on the mark. However, I woul...Well-said - and right on the mark. However, I would say that one thing the Bible-based churches do that we do not is encourage families to read Bible stories. I went to Methodist Sunday school - and by the time I was about 6 years old, I could recite the names of all the books of the Bible and was familiar with the big stories. Biblical literacy has to start from the moment the parents begin to read to the children. Most kids I see in classrooms are simply unfamiliar with the great stories of Salvation History. <br /><br />Children's Liturgy of the Word is also helpful in presenting the Sunday gospels in a form children can understand. <br /><br />Bottom line: the earlier children begin to hear the great stories of the Bible, the better.jdonliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15729552755992633453noreply@blogger.com